[00:00:00] Speaker A: I see God's hand in everything now, and not just in my life, but in other people's lives. One of my most favorite things ever is to see God's hand in my friends and family's lives and to share that with them.
Because it's so obvious now. And it's. And it's kind of crazy because I think now, like, how did I ever deny the Lord? How could I have done that when he has been so kind and so gracious and so merciful and loving towards me? And even when I pushed him away.
[00:00:32] Speaker B: Why?
[00:00:33] Speaker A: Why did I do that?
And so it truly was like just a moment of this is it, this is, this is. I chose not to believe.
Now I choose to believe.
[00:00:52] Speaker B: Hello and welcome to Ex Skeptic, where we explore unlikely stories of belief from those who once did, doubted, or dismissed God and Christianity. I'm Jana Harmon and this podcast is for curious skeptics as well as Christians who want to understand and meaningfully engage with those who are doubting.
Have you ever resisted faith because it felt blind?
Something you were told to accept without evidence?
Or maybe you trusted yourself more than anything else, determined to stay in control of your own life?
But what happens when that control starts to crumble?
Today's guest, Meghan Carroll, once believed that she didn't need God at all. But when life challenged her sense of certainty, her sense of control, her questions began to take a new shape.
Her story invites us to think again about faith, control and what's really true.
I hope you'll listen in.
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Welcome to Ekoskeptic, Megan. It's so great to have you with me today.
[00:03:06] Speaker A: Good to be here, Jana.
[00:03:07] Speaker B: Thank you so much. Wonderful. I'd love for the listeners to know more about you. Can you introduce yourself a little bit about perhaps the work that you do, maybe where you live or your interests?
[00:03:17] Speaker A: Sure. So my name is Megan Carroll.
I am living in the Dallas Fort Worth area in North Texas, and I currently work for a financial technology company in their compliance department.
[00:03:29] Speaker B: You are sitting with me today. I actually met you at a conference last weekend as someone who is a former skeptic. Yeah. And I wanted to know your story. And as soon as I heard it, I knew that we had to bring it on our Ex Skeptic podcast. So why don't we start. Start back at the beginning of your story, Megan. Tell us a little bit about where you grew up, what your family life was like.
Was religion or any part of that. Did you go to church or did you read the Bible, or was that in the picture at all?
[00:03:59] Speaker A: Yeah, sure.
So I grew up in Southern California, in Los Angeles, and my parent. I had a really, really great childhood.
My mom actually adopted my sister when I was five years old, so the. She was a new addition to the family.
And my sister and I grew up together.
My parents are divorced, so I did split my time between my mom and my dad, but both my parents were believers, but not devout believers, I would say.
So my childhood was filled with a lot of opportunity to go to church and experience different things.
My grandmother is my mom's mom. She is a devout Christian, and she is. I call her a Jesus freak, but she wears that as a badge of honor as she stood.
And she.
She was always, always, always trying to talk to me and my sister about Jesus and God and to show us that, like, this is the way, this is who we follow and kind of try to give us reason.
My mom also really tried to take us to church, but she never really. I don't think she ever felt comfortable in the places that we went to. So we just kind of never stuck.
My stepmom is also a very, very devout Christian, and she made it a point to really drag me to church. I say it because it was. It was a fight.
And she goes to a Baptist church. Um, and so that was very different from, like, the Lutheran churches that I had been to or the Episcopalian churches I had been to.
I had been to even some Catholic churches.
And so she. It was my. My family really did try to introduce me to the Lord, and I just was not receptive. And I think a large part of that was because it felt very forced.
And I am the type of person where I. I like the freedom of choice. I want to choose my path for myself.
So I had a lot of really positive influences that pushed me towards God. And I was kind of like, no, thanks, I'm good. I don't want that. And, you know, I had even gone to my mom what used to send us to vacation Bible school for a week. And so I had been. So. It's not like I had never been introduced to religion or.
Or to God or to Jesus.
It was really.
They. They tried. They really put in a valiant effort, I will say.
And then there actually was an experience that I had when I was 10 years old. I was in vacation Bible school that week. It was over the summer.
And the only thing that I can remember from that, from that week was in one of the lessons, towards the end of the day, the teacher was telling us that anytime that we are afraid, all we have to say is, in God I trust, and that we would be comforted.
So later that day, my. My sister and I were actually staying with my grandma and grandpa in Lakerhead, California, at the time.
And later that day, my grandpa had taken us to Strawberry Peak. So in Southern California, I think people are familiar. There are. There's a wildfire season.
And so there are these peaks, these various peaks that are set up across the mountains that are fire lookouts. And that's how they spot these wildfires at first. And I remember standing there looking over the edge, and I. And I can see.
I can see how high up I am, number one. And number two, I'm looking at this rock that has a rattlesnake on it, and I thought, oh, my gosh, that's so cool. Like, I'm. I can see a snake from here.
And then the fear started to set in because I realized how.
How high up I was.
And what we learned in vacation Bible school that day popped into my head. And so I remember saying, in God I trust.
And immediately after that, it felt like someone had come up behind me with a blanket and wrapped it over me and hugged me and there. And I. I won't lie, I freaked out. It was a little. A little unnerving because I. I, like, stepped back from the edge and I looked around and there was. There was nobody. There was nobody around me, my. My sister, the three people that I was with. Were inside and I was outside. And so it was very like, what just happened? I, I, I couldn't ignore the experience because I knew what I felt, but I couldn't reconcile it either. I, I didn't know what was happening.
So that, and I also didn't tell anybody that that happened when I was a child because I didn't think anybody would believe me.
[00:09:06] Speaker B: So did you think that that experience made you believe that God existed? Maybe something's there or was it just more frightening? Like, what was that? I don't know that I want to have anything to do with that.
[00:09:17] Speaker A: That's a good question. Um, I think it was, made me realize that there is the possibility that something bigger than myself is out there and it's watching over me and it, and it's listening to me.
So whether it was an angel, whether it was Jesus, whether it was God himself wrapping his arms around me, I, I couldn't deny the experience. But I, but I didn't recognize it as God at the time.
[00:09:44] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:09:45] Speaker A: But that, that experience really stayed with me. And I have clung to that in so many moments where, you know, I catch myself like, do I really believe in God?
Because, you know, I, I'm, I'm new, I'm a baby Christian. I'm, I'm 18 months into my walk with the Lord. And so I still have a lot of questions and a lot of doubts.
And so that was, so it was one of those experiences that I really, really hold onto.
[00:10:09] Speaker B: You were 10 years old when that happened. So did that peak any more interest in church or the things of God, or were you still rather resisting that?
[00:10:18] Speaker A: I was rather resistant, very resistant. So I ended up going to an all girls Catholic high school, and I went there from seventh grade through 12th grade.
And in my theology classes, I was not the teacher's favorite person.
In our theology classes, I really, I asked a lot of questions about Catholicism and kind of why things were the way they were.
And I was oftentimes met with the answer of like, well, it's just that way because the Bible says so, or it's just that way because we've done it like this forever.
And I was like, no, I, sorry, I don't accept that. That doesn't, I'm not like, I'm not going to do something just because you tell me it is that way. I, I have to be bought in.
And so I, my theology, my theology teachers. My mom tells a story where every time she would go to a parent teacher conference, some of the teachers would go, so you're Megan's mom. And it's like, yeah, yeah, that I. I am. That's my daughter. So I was very. And I was. And I was, I was argumentative. I was combative because I was searching for.
I think. I think I was really searching for truth, but I didn't know that at the time. I was. I was searching for answers that made sense to me.
I, you know, people always.
Non believers always talk about, you know, like, believing in God is just a blind faith. And I used to think that. And it's. It's so not that way at all.
So I had. So I think, because my experiences in high school, I really felt like religion, not God, but religion was shoved down my throat a lot, and I didn't like the way that that left me feeling.
So. And I realized that, you know, believing in God and believing in religion are kind of different things. At least to me they are.
And so I was really turned off to the whole idea of, like, following one certain view about whatever it was.
So I just, I. I was. I was very, very, very resistant. Even though I've. I've had experiences where I've encountered the Lord, I just, I still denied it. I still denied it. I. Because I couldn't explain it. And it just.
[00:12:45] Speaker B: Yeah, so that's what happened in co. In high school. So then.
Then I guess you carried that into college, where you were no longer in a religious kind of.
[00:12:55] Speaker A: Yeah, so in college, yes, I had a lot of freedom, so I went to Penn State. So I moved from Southern California, across the country to Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania.
And that was a shock in its own. In itself, but I. In college, you know, I finally was on my own, like, truly on my own. I. We have no family on the East Coast.
It was just me. I have no friends on the East Coast. It was just me.
So I really. It was like my first chance to really, like, curate the kind of life and people that I wanted to be around.
And it was. And it was great. I, you know, I had a great time in college, but I also didn't have great influences, and I was also a bad influence, I will admit that.
So in college, I was always really drawn to witchy things like fortune tellers and tarot cards. And I thought it was all so interesting, like, psychic abilities. Like, I was so drawn to that.
And I ended up playing with a Ouija board when I was in college and with a couple friends and we were in. So I moved up to State College, Pennsylvania, which is smack dab in the middle of the state um, it's up in the mountains. It's around farmland. There's really not much to do.
So we got ourselves into some trouble. We ended up finding a field that had a cemetery. And anybody that has been to Pennsylvania or lives there knows that random cemeteries in fields is, like, a common thing. It's not a big deal over there.
And so we brought this Ouija board and set it on top of a headstone.
And my friends and I started asking questions, and the.
The board started talking back.
And all of us were kind of looking at each other like, this isn't real. You're doing this. Your hand is pushing this. This isn't real. This isn't happening.
And one of my friends actually asked the question if. If you are real, we don't know who you are, but if you're real, show yourself to us.
And all of a sudden, we all backed up off the board. We turned and we looked in the same direction, and there was a figure of a person, but it looked like TV static, and it was walking towards us.
And that freaked me out because I thought, okay, so I don't know what this was. Something revealed itself to. To us when we asked it to.
That was definitely a negative spirit. And I had always believed that demons existed. I always believed ghosts existed.
And, you know, my grandmother actually said to me one time that. She said, you know, well, if you believe in demons, then. Then you have to believe in angels. You can't believe in one and not the other.
And when she said that to me, that was kind of like almost a moment of clarity where I was like, I can't really refute that. She's kind of right. I can't choose to believe in one and choose not to believe in the other. If one exists, then that means that proves the argument that another. That the other side must exist.
And so.
So in college, you know, I still continued not believing. I still continued to, you know, do the things that I was doing. I. I remember that Ouija board experience.
And so I was like, okay, now I'm wrestling with the fact that there is a spirit world out there. I kind of always knew that, but I. I had proof.
[00:16:38] Speaker B: So when you went in. Into college and you didn't go to church, you didn't do religion there, May you. You were. You. Would you have called yourself an agnostic at that point? Because evidently you still.
You dismissed a religion, maybe not God, or did you miss. Dismiss God at that point? Would you have considered yourself an atheist?
[00:17:00] Speaker A: I think in college I was like, yeah, I mean, I believe in tangible things, like seeing is believing, as they say.
And then, and then I was having a conversation with someone where I don't remember who this was, but they had asked me, why, if you don't, why do you believe or why should you believe if you can't see? And they asked me, they said, do you know the wind exists? You can't see it, but you can feel it.
Do you know that love exists? You can't see it, you can't touch it, but you can feel it. And so it was some of those examples that really started very, very slowly cracking open the concrete that was over my mind, as I like to say, where I was kind of starting to wrestle with the fact of like, maybe I do believe.
No. And then it was like, no, no, no, no, no, that's crazy. I don't believe. I don't believe. I need more proof than that.
[00:17:55] Speaker B: Well, you evidently started believing that there was a spiritual world.
[00:17:58] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:18:01] Speaker B: Both the experience in your childhood as well as the Ouija board experience. And I'm sure that that was very sobering in the sense that, yeah, something was happening there. Something real or tangible that was non physical.
[00:18:17] Speaker A: Exactly. I think that's what it was. Difficult for me was I, was I, I, I knew I was experiencing something.
I couldn't explain it, I couldn't reconcile it. I, I couldn't. I didn't know what to do with it, but I knew that it was real.
[00:18:31] Speaker B: So after that experience with Ouija board and you said you had some interest in, in perhaps Wicca or those kinds of things, did you enter further into some of those practices or into that world?
[00:18:44] Speaker A: No, I never did. I was still interested in it. But I also had this, this inner, almost like this tug of war. I could feel in my chest that I knew I shouldn't go.
Kind of like that gut feeling where you're like, something is telling me I shouldn't do this and I should probably listen.
And of course, now I know that was the Lord.
And so, no, I never delved any further into it because it just never felt right. Like, even though I was interested, it didn't feel right.
[00:19:15] Speaker B: You had mentioned that you were also interested in the sciences and of course, in the scientific worldview. There's often that view of the world that nature is all there is or matter is all there is.
The empiricism that you can only know which you can feel, taste and touch and observe with your eyes and ears and those kinds of things. Yeah, but that was being challenged, obviously by this spiritual World, whatever that was.
So, but as you were moving along, did you allow that kind of awareness of spirituality kind of interrupt your concrete mind, or did you just kind of go along thinking, okay, there may be something out there. I just don't want to kind of deal with that quite yet.
What were your next steps forward?
[00:20:12] Speaker A: I, I think it was definitely where I was like, you know, something is, something is here, something is going on, but I don't want to entertain was purely a choice not to look for the other side. I, I, I wasn't looking for God and I didn't want to.
[00:20:29] Speaker B: You know, some people are very happy in this, in this view of the world that, you know, you're making the choices. You know, you, you were talking about how this was a, this was a time in your life where you were, you were in control, you were creating your world, and you're, you know, living your, your best life, I'm sure, at Penn State and beyond.
What did your, what does your life look like during that, that period of time?
[00:20:55] Speaker A: My, my life at that time was, it's all on me. So, like, anything good that happened to me, any job offer I got any, any sort of promotion or accolade or anything, anything good that happened to me, I was like, yes, this is, this is all on me. I did this. My works, my words, my deeds, I got myself here.
But on the other side of that coin was if anything went wrong, it was all on me.
And I, I didn't have anything to fall back on. If I was depressed or if I made a mistake stake and it, and it cost me financially or it cost me in different ways, that was on me. And so I felt this, on one hand, I felt this freedom of, like, yes, like, I am responsible for my own life.
And then there was the terror of, like, I am responsible for my own life. So it was, it was very much this, like, this, this balancing act for me where it was like, okay, yeah, everything's hunky dory. Like, I'm so amazing that, like, my life is going great.
And then when things got difficult, it was like, what am I going to do? This, this is on me. Like, well, I, I have to fix this. I have to, I have to do something. I have to correct, I have to correct my ways. I, I, I have to do. It was like, it was all about me. So the focus was very much inward on, like, what can I do? What do I need to stop doing?
I was consulting myself, essentially. That's what was going on.
[00:22:24] Speaker B: And that didn't Give you any. Or even that disconcertion of where it's all on you.
There wasn't any urgency or interest into looking outward or in terms of any. Well, maybe there is a God. Maybe there's something more. Maybe there is, you know, there is someone out there who sees me like, you know, when I was 10 years old, who can actually provide for me in my. In my time of need or.
Or lead me perhaps in the way I should go. There was none of. None of that interest. You were like, I'm determined, you know, I'm going to live my best life on my own.
[00:23:01] Speaker A: Yes, Very headstrong, very determined. There was no. There was no even thought of, like, maybe this is God. Maybe. Maybe I'm not in control of my own life. There was none of that. There was absolutely none of that. I have. I'm the type of person that once I make up my mind, it's very difficult to change it. Sometimes I can't even change my own mind. And I know that sounds silly, but I'm very headstrong to a fault sometimes. So. In 2022, I met my current partner, my boyfriend, and he.
He became very sick.
So sick to which we now know he had an infection, but he was so incredibly sick that I actually didn't know if he was gonna wake up and live another day.
And so. And it was so difficult to watch him just continuously deteriorate and he didn't wanna go to the doctor. And I mean, I understand, but it was.
It was hard. It was really hard on me. And at that point, I remember laying in bed one night and he was just. He had. He couldn't sleep. He was so. He was.
He was sleep deprived.
He was just in really, really bad shape. And I laid there, tears in my eyes. And I remember saying, okay, God, if you are real, please help him sleep. Please give him one more night. Let him live to see another day.
And I. And I laid in bed and I asked God for that for months, every night for months, just please let him see another day. Please let him see another day. Please let me see another day. Please help me through. Because I. That was probably the first time in my life where I was like, I have no control over what is happening. I can't fix it. I can't make it better. I can't do anything. I can't do anything.
And so I felt powerless. And so, you know, all previous events in my life had, like, it was on me. Like I was in charge of myself and I could control a lot of the outcomes that happened, and this one, I couldn't. Um. And so by the grace of God, he got better. He sought medical attention. He. We cleared the infection, and he is thriving today. Fast forward to summer of 2023. I had posted something on my social media that was an opinion of someone else towards the LGBT community.
And my best friend at the time is part of. She is still part of that community.
And when I had posted this opinion, someone else's opinion, it really deeply offended her, and it made her question who I was as a person.
And so we had several discussions, sort of.
We, we were both. I was very shocked that she had essentially said to me that, you know, we've always been different, but. But this is just too different, and I don't think I can be your friend anymore.
And I was, I was devastated. I was crushed. The, the person.
My best friend of 15 years, we went to Christ School together. We, we were each other's ride or die. I. She was my person, and she left and she walked away because of a difference in one opinion that would, that she decided was too different for her to be able to continue to be my friend. And so I felt rejected. I felt misunderstood.
I felt all of the negative feelings probably on the entire spectrum that you could feel. And I was, I mean, I was heartbroken because I never thought that she and I would not be friends.
And I remember thinking, after we had that conversation, I said to myself, only God can help her.
And then it was like a lightning bolt into my brain, directly into my brain, where God was like, well, if God can only help her, then I can only help you.
And it shook me to my core.
And God gave me this vision of me and her. And she was down in this dark, pitch black pit, and I was leaning over the edge, reaching down inside this pit to try and pull her out, but I realized how close I was to falling into that pit with her myself.
And that, that was the moment where I realized, I don't know God. I don't know God, and I have to know God, because only God can help us. And that was truly.
That was God putting that on my heart. That was the Holy Spirit speaking through me and speaking to me.
And so very shortly after that experience, I was scrolling through Instagram one day and I saw a post that said, you don't know God if you don't know God's word.
And I was like, oh, my gosh. That is, that's, that's right. That's true. I, I. And so it was, again, it was another confirmation that like, I don't know God. So I, I called my mom and I was like, mom, I need a Bible. I don't, I know I don't need the King James Version, but I don't know what else is out there. Like, I need something I can understand, I want, like, how do, how, how do I even start studying? Like, where do I start? Where do I, I, I, I knew nothing up to this point.
Um, and I had read the Bible, you know, in church and in, in high school. Like, I'd read the Bible, but I didn' was doing it because it was the expectation, not because I wanted to.
[00:28:53] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:28:55] Speaker A: And, and it was in that moment really where I just, I, I became on fire.
And it, so the Bible study that my mom recommended to me was called Seamless. And I forget the woman that wrote that, but it essentially is a Bible study that walks you through Genesis to Revelation in just a very short 10 week sequence. So as I started reading the Bible, I quickly realized, wow, I thought I knew what was in the Bible.
I had no idea. I had no idea. The first thing that blew my mind was when I read that Moses killed a man before God ever used him to, to free the Israelites from slavery. And I was like, what Moses?
Excuse me? It was very much like, wow, God, God uses sinners, like all of us to do, to do, to do great things. And so, and I, and so I just thought, I don't know any of the Bible. I thought, I was like, it was like the veil had been lifted from my eyes and I could finally see and read and understand.
And so I, so in November, I started studying the Bible and my mom actually invited me. Our church, well, my church now, but her church at the time was doing a Bible study that's starting in February. And she was like, hey, do you want to come do Bible study with me? And I thought, yes. Like, I went through Seamless on my own and I didn't have, I was just working through the book and I just, I wanted more. I, I, I, I had that craving for knowledge. Um, I love to learn. It's kind of nerdy, but I, I do, I love to learn and I love learning new things, especially things that challenge my current perspective. Even though it's difficult to wrestle with the fact that like, oh, maybe I don't believe in what I used to, I knew it was necessary for me. Uh, it was, it was just, I, it was something I knew I had to do.
[00:31:01] Speaker B: So I'm curious as a thinking person and you immediately went to the Bible and did you ever question what you were reading, whether or not it was true? I mean, you had probably a respect for the Bible as something that was esteemed in your academic environment, as in your Catholic school and in your home, but you went to the Bible and you started reading and being hungry for, which is amazing. Did you ever question whether or not this is a reliable text? How do I know this is not just a good story?
Was there any skepticism, I guess, towards the text itself? Or did you just entered in with. With a fully open mind and heart towards it?
[00:31:55] Speaker A: So I. I will say I was not questioning that at the time.
I think I was just. I was so on fire to know more about God and what I was experiencing that I just. I threw myself into it. No, no expectations, no knowledge of anything. I just kind of started and, and took off and ran with it.
Um, so I did. I. I didn't really. And I think even. Even back when I was in college or in high school or even a child, I didn't really ever question whether it was true.
And I think, because this is kind of funny to say now, but I. I think I didn't question it because to me it was like. Like my grandmother, her. Her belief was so hardcore.
Why would she believe in something that wasn't true?
And so it was kind of. So I kind of like. I guess I always kind of knew the Bible was true, but I didn't really question it. And, And I was. Like I said, I was just so hungry and on fire to know more that. That questioning whether or not it was true wasn't even on my radar. First I needed to, like, understand. I just needed to read the Bible.
[00:33:03] Speaker B: That was to see what it was.
[00:33:04] Speaker A: I just needed to see. Exactly. I just needed to see with my own eyes and my own heart what it was for myself.
[00:33:11] Speaker B: And you had an idea about what the Bible was?
I just think that. What did you think the Bible was before you actually came and read it for yourself?
[00:33:19] Speaker A: That's such a great question.
So I thought. I guess I thought the Bible was just a book that people were living their life by.
And I didn't really question the validity of the Bible. I questioned religion itself. So I didn't question the Bible, but I questioned Christianity.
[00:33:41] Speaker B: It's interesting. The name of the study that you started was called Seamless. And there's an inference there that there is a grand story, a whole narrative. You said it went from Genesis to Revelation, from the very beginning to the very end of these 66 books.
That it tells a seamless story. For those who may not have read the Bible, are curious about it, what would that seamless story be?
[00:34:13] Speaker A: So I think the story of the Bible is even though they are all separate books written by different people in different time periods, the stories themselves are knit together through God.
And so I actually, recently, I believe it was last. It was in December last year, I saw Tara Lee Cobble speak. She is the podcaster for the Bible Recap, Reading the Bible in a year. And she came to speak at our church and she told this story about how the first time she ever read through the Bible, she hated it.
[00:34:57] Speaker B: She.
[00:34:57] Speaker A: And she was a believer before that, but it. When she first read through the Bible, she hated it. She. She didn't like the God that she was reading about. She didn't like the stories that. What they were saying to her. She didn't like any of it. And she says that she talked to her. Her pastor, I believe it was, or her spiritual mentor, and he said, okay, now what I want you to do is I want you to read the Bible again, but I want you to not look for yourself in the pages. I want you to look for God.
And I think that's the biggest mistake that a lot of us make when we read the Bible is we're looking for ourselves and the story. And the Bible's not about that. The Bible is the story of God and how God reveals himself to his people and to the rest of us.
And so it was. And in that Bible study, that was so clear to me how, you know, because she. The way she lays it out is, you know, you read the scripture, you answer the questions, you talk and she talks about it, but she points you to where God is in the story. And Tara Leigh Cobble does the same thing. She calls it her God shot. Where do you see God in this scripture?
And I feel like that was the piece that I was also missing was I wasn't reading the Bible looking for God.
[00:36:13] Speaker B: So obviously, the more you studied it, the more you really invested it in and understood the God story. Yeah.
I presume it became more convincing for you.
[00:36:25] Speaker A: It did. It did. There are, you know, sometimes there are things that I read in the Bible that really just like, jump out at me and. And that's for a reason.
Sometimes it's to, you know, correct a behavior that I have been or a pattern that I've fallen into and God's revealed to me through scripture. Like, hey, other people struggle with this too. And I think. And I. That's also what really started convincing me that the Bible is just not some ancient story that we can't relate to today in 2025, people in biblical times were struggling with the exact same problems that we struggle with today.
Greed, depression, joy, loss.
It's everything. And so it wasn't, it wasn't this like, distant story that had that, that I couldn't apply to my life.
It was like I was right there in the pages because the people that are highlighted, the characters that are highlighted in the, in the Bible are a reflection of who we are as a, as a human race. You know, everybody can relate to something.
[00:37:37] Speaker B: In the Bible to kind of tie things together. There, there was that, that warm hug that you received as a 10 year old. Like he's trying to show his presence and his love for you. You weren't sure about it then. You weren't at a place as accepting or seeing, but you obviously reached a place where you welcomed that.
The love of God, feeling seen by God, heard by God and accepting him for who he was on his own terms.
Is that what happened at some point in your life? You're like, yes, God, I believe it was that.
[00:38:18] Speaker A: It was exactly that.
So one of the things that a major, major turning point for me was when I started the Seamless Bible study, I could not get the thought of being baptized out of my head.
Now, mind you, I have never witnessed a baptism.
I had never heard anybody in my own personal life that got baptized.
I didn't really know what being baptized was or what the point was, but I could not shake the thought.
And I remember telling my mom, like, mom, I'm having, I feel like I need to get baptized. And I said it just like that. And she was like, what?
And it was very much this moment of like, I don't know what's happening, but I can't, I, I can't get this thought out of my brain.
And, and I told her, I said, I just, I feel like I'm being, I feel like I'm being pulled towards this direction. Like I, like I can't even stop it. It's just my body and my heart is just, is going towards, towards baptism.
And she so kindly and graciously just smiled and looked at me and she said, that's the Holy Spirit knocking on your heart.
And when she, and when she said that, sorry, I tend to get emotional because that was, when she said that to me, that was the first time where I actually had like an explanation for what I was feeling because I couldn't explain it. And I didn't know. And I knew the thought wasn't mine.
I knew it wasn't mine.
And so, so she. So my mom actually advised me to ask God, why, why, why am I thinking this? Why am I having this thought?
And very shortly after, I asked him, like, why God? Why is the. Is this you? Because I don't. I don't know why I feel like I need to be baptized. I don't know why I'm feeling called to do this.
And then I read about Jesus baptism in Matthew chapter three and in John chapter one.
And when I read that, God said to me, Jesus was baptized. And so if you're going to follow Jesus, you need to do what he did. So I shared my story about what brought me to this point with the pastor.
And we had a little like one on one session one afternoon where the pastor, Pastor Luke, God bless that man. He really explained to me what baptism was, why we do it, and why it matters.
And that was the first time that somebody had one explained the gospel to me of, you know, this is what we believe. This is why from start to finish.
And that was also the first time that I learned the difference between grace and mercy.
And grace is getting what you don't deserve, and mercy is not getting what you do deserve.
And he. And he. And he showed me how God is merciful by sending his Son to, to. To die for all of us, past, present and future, so that we may be in relationship with God because the wages for sin is death.
And Jesus rose from the dead. And he. And it wasn't just like he quoted scripture. He says, there are. The gospels are an eyewitness account of people who spent time and lived with Jesus and saw the crucifixion.
How could I refute that?
And it was just. It was one of those things where it was like. I mean, even Roman. Roman historical records document Jesus crucifixion. And so it was like everything started coming together where it was like, oh, this is not a blind fate. This is. Jesus did rise from the dead. And he said these are the pillars of being a Christian, is that you believe that Jesus was the son of the living God, that he died for our sins and rose from the dead.
That's it. And so being so, on March 24, 2024, I gave my life over to Jesus. And I.
And I made a promise to God in that water that day that for as long and as loudly that I denied Him, I will praise him and tell people about him for just as long and just as Loudly as a.
[00:43:01] Speaker B: Christian, Alice, fairly new to you.
A year and a half or so.
[00:43:06] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:43:07] Speaker B: How has that adjustment been? That's a major paradigm shift. And the way that you view life, the way that you view yourself, the way that you view God.
And so how has your life changed?
[00:43:21] Speaker A: I really, really would love to sit here and say that my life got so much better when I gave it to Jesus.
It didn't.
My life got really hard after that, and I, and I don't want to scare anybody away from that experience, but I, I became more aware that I was not in control of what was happening in my life and that spiritual attacks are very real.
So 2024 was an insanely wild year for me.
I got baptized in March, and then I started having some health issues in April. I, I had some dental work done that wasn't like, quite right. And so I was feeling a lot of pain. I wasn't feeling good. Like, I just both be feeling myself.
And then in May, I found out that my dog had a lung tumor that I couldn't afford treatment for.
Then shortly after that, my boyfriend's father, who was living with us at the time, had a stroke.
So we were dealing with that.
And then I got laid off from my job in August. So when I say my life got hard, it got hard.
But the difference was that now I had Jesus to lean on.
And I never, you know that the scripture, I wish I could quote Scripture, but I'm not quite there yet. But, you know, Jesus says, I am your refuge and your strength. And I never really understood what that meant until all I had was to lean on Jesus.
And, and truly that surrender is so difficult, but it was, but it was necessary. And I feel like God really, really revealed to me reasons why I need him.
Because to your point, Jan, I might previously, to my whole life, I was like, I don't need God. I'm fine. I look at me, I'm doing great. My life is great, like, and it's because of me. I don'. God, Jesus is what carried me through all of those really, really tough times where, I mean, even just looking for a job, anybody who is looking for a job or who has had to look for a job in the past two years knows that it's not easy. You know, it's, it's so difficult nowadays. And I, I didn't know that was when I got laid off in August of last year. That was the first time in my life that I didn't have a plan B because it was kind of unexpected and I. And I sat there with, like. Like, I was just left with nothing. It was the first time where I was like, I don't have a plan. What am I going to do? Like, I lost a part of myself is what it felt like.
And that was really difficult that I. Because I've always been. I'm always a planner. I always know where I'm going, what I need to do. I see the end goal, and I'm going to take the steps necessary to get there. I've always been that type of person. And. And I was. My mind was blank, completely blank.
And so I thought, okay, this is interesting. I've never. This is uncharted territory for me. God, like, what am I doing here?
The week before, Actually, the Tuesday of the week. So I was laid off on a Friday. That Tuesday night of that week, I went to my mom's Bible study. They were having, like, a special session with one of our church teachers.
Her name is Laura Collins. And she was teaching us how to not only pray to God, but to listen after prayer. And while I was listening, God said to me, pray about it.
That was it. Pray about it.
And I'm like, pray about what?
[00:47:12] Speaker B: What?
[00:47:13] Speaker A: Pray about what is the it? What is the it?
Um, and so. So we all shared. So after the five minutes was up, we all shared, and it was. And everybody asked me, like, what is the it? What is the it? What. What is it you're gonna pray about? I said, I don't know. I have no idea.
Well, lo and behold, three days later, that's when I got laid off. And it. And I knew. And I was so mad because I was like, God, you knew that was gonna happen.
You knew and you didn't tell me, but you did, but you didn't. And so it was very much like. It was like. It was that aha moment of like, this is the it. I now have to. I now have to fully surrender and trust that God will provide, that he will provide. He will help me land a job. He. Because, again, it's not gonna be me. I can't do it on my own.
And that was also something that I really had to wrestle with, was like, I. I really. I really am not responsible for my own life. I'm. I'm not in full control, at least the illusion of control.
Um, and so it was.
You know, so my perspective has really changed a lot in that I see God's hand in everything now, and not just in my life, but in other people's lives. One of my most favorite things Ever is to see God's hand in my friends and family's lives and to share that with them.
Because it's so obvious now. And it's, and it's kind of crazy because I think now, like, how did I ever deny the Lord? How could I have done that when he has been so kind and so gracious and so merciful and loving towards me, even when I pushed him away?
Why, why did I do that?
And so it truly was like just a moment of this is it, this is, this is. I chose not to believe. Now I choose to believe.
[00:49:12] Speaker B: Yeah, that's beautiful. And it, and it isn't on blind faith. It's based on real experiences, on reality, on truth, on the word, on the way that he reveals himself to you.
You mentioned there that you speak into your family's lives and friends lives and things like that, which incredible. And it makes me wonder when they, when you're your mom, your stepmom, your grandmother, when they were watching you reject, you know, didn't want to have anything to do with God or Jesus or the Bible or church or anything for a period of time.
For those parents or grandparents out there who are seeing their, their children and their grandchildren reject, how, how did they manage that with you in and, or I guess can you give any advice to parents or grandparents in terms of the best way that, that are even not so good ways that that might have been managed with you and some advice you can give there?
[00:50:14] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely.
Number one piece of advice is pray about it.
Intercessory prayer works. Prayer of all kinds works, but intercessory prayer, praying for the salvation of a loved one, it works.
And I, I didn't know that being baptized would be an answered prayer for so many people in my family.
And so I am so incredibly fortunate that I have the kind of family that I do.
My, my mom and my grandma and anybody that I would kind of debate on that topic was very good at listening to what I had to say, but also challenging what I, what I believed and challenging me in a way that was not like, you know, shameful or making me feel guilty for not believing in God, which I think, you know, a lot of religious people can come across that way very like self righteously, like, oh, you're better than me because you believe in Jesus and I don't.
And I think we have to be very careful, especially when we're talking to non believers about things like that because it's kind of a turn off. It makes them not receptive to hearing to what you have to say so. My grandma especially would just ask me questions, well, why do you believe that? Why is a very powerful word.
And I think we should ask more of it. Because there were times where my grandma just kept asking why?
And I would finally get to a point where it was like, I don't know why. I don't know why I believe this.
So she really made me look within and question myself and challenge myself. Why do I believe this? Why do I think this way?
And it's.
And I think, I think we all need to ask ourselves why more. You know, why. Why do I believe in God? Why do I think this way? Why do I feel like this?
So prayer is incredibly powerful.
Secondly, I would say approach the conversation with grace, with as much grace as you can allow yourself and to not be offended when somebody tells you that you're like a Jesus freak or they think you're silly or dumb for believing in what you believe.
Don't take offense to it.
Because I know that I have offended people previously because I would tell them, like, you're completely stupid for believing in this. This is ridiculous.
And I think just that kindness of realizing, like, okay, you're not ready, you're not ready. That's okay.
And also remembering our job is not to convert people. That's God's job.
And so I think our job is to plant the seed and to share, but you can't force the flower to grow.
And so I think, really.
And another thing I will mention is that specifically for non believers coming on a really strong, where you're just, you're throwing scripture at them. You're, you're. It's almost like you try to show how much you know to a non believer to get them to convince them that you know your way is the right way.
And for people, for non believers, the Bible has no authority in their life. And so it doesn't, it doesn't mean anything to just throw scripture at them.
And, and as I said previously, that's kind of a turnoff when people are just quoting the Bible and, and you don't have any context or explanation behind that. It's confusing. I think we need to remember how Jesus talked to people. Jesus didn't just come at somebody and say, you're a sinner. Shame, shame, shame, blah, blah, blah. You don't read the Bible. Jesus never did any of that. Jesus met us where we are and we kind of lose sight of that. We lose sight of how Jesus approached people, how he was able to connect with people.
And so my advice would be to just be more like Jesus from your.
[00:54:22] Speaker B: You know, you were, you were someone. The way that you talk about your story is that there seems to be a kind of a time and place where you're kind of ready.
Time that you're maybe not ready.
So there are those who are skeptical but curious. Maybe they are at a time of, of wondering and willing to come and see.
Obviously you were at a place at, at a particular point in your life, you turned from a place of kind of resistance to a place of openness.
What, what would you recommend for someone who is willing to kind of come and see? Would it be to like enter in just reading the Bible, like the Bible, the Bible app that you were talking about? Is that, is that a good place to start or like a Bible study? Like seamless or just start praying, you know, God, I'm real.
You know, there's so many elements in your story that makes me wonder what, how you would respond.
[00:55:24] Speaker A: Where I am in my walk with the Lord right now, I've often reflected of if I could start over differently where, or, or, or just like you're asking me today, if so, where do I point someone to start? If they, if they just want to start somewhere, where is that?
So I, I would definitely say you need a Bible, get yourself a Bible. I use the NLT version because I, it's, it's easier for me to understand.
It's more of like a thought for thought type of Bible instead of like a word for word like the King James Version. I would say for those that are curious, start in the Gospels, Matthew, Mark, Luke and John.
And actually a little fun fact and something that I did last year.
Luke has 24 chapters.
If you start on December 1st, by Christmas Eve you will have read through an entire book of the Bible and you will also be reminded and shown what, what Christmas is, why we celebrate Christmas and the whole reason for it.
So. And just reading one chapter a day, it sounds daunting. It can be daunting.
But I, I would start there. I would start with reading, reading the gospels.
Next. I would absolutely recommend the seamless Bible study. It, it does such a good job of just kind of taking you through the Bible from start to finish in a very short but organized way that you kind of get like this overarching picture. And like, for me it was when I read about, you know, Moses killing a man in Exodus that made me want to read the entire book of Exodus because I'm like, okay, wait a minute. Because she kind of like started there. She was like, go read this passage and, and see what this says. And I was like, what?
And so then I was like, wait. So then I started flipping back and I'm like, wait a minute, wait a minute. How did we get here? How did we get here?
So, so it, so it piqued my curiosity when I would just read different pieces.
So I would absolutely recommend the seamless Bible study. It was so eye opening for me. So number one, get yourself a Bible. Start reading the Gospels.
And also when you're reading, read slowly, read very slowly and read every single word because there will be things where you will read it and you'll go, wait a second, let me read that again. And so, and, and allow yourself to be open to what you might learn or what you might find or what you might realize about yourself when you're reading in the, in, in scripture.
And so that would be, I think that would be my advice to people that are curious and they just kind of don't know where to start.
Get yourself a Bible and get yourself a Bible study book.
[00:58:22] Speaker B: I hope and I pray that, that there are those who are listening who will get the Bible for the first time and open it up. I know there's so many people in culture these days that the Bible sales are out, off the roof, you know, in terms of interest, and it's just the best place to start.
It is God revealing himself to you, to truth, who he is and who you are and how much he loves you. Yeah. So it is a wonderful story and thank you so much for your story, Megan. There's so many beautiful touch points and there's so many different elements of it, you know, of, of stubbornness and resistance and you're just not going to believe. Blind faith, but yet God and, you know, the light and the dark in terms of spiritual experiences really showing themselves to you, making you think, okay, there's something more than just this physical world. And then, you know, as life goes on and you're in control and it's not as easy as you think. You know, life brings so many challenges, and yet God was ever patient and came at your point of need, even though you had pushed him away for so long. He's like, I was just waiting. We're just waiting for you. I was waiting for you to come and to be ready for me to come near to you. And it's such a beautiful story, such a beautiful story.
Thank you so much, Megan. I do hope and pray that others will be inspired to come, even for the first time, and say, God, are you there because he is waiting for you and to open yourself to how he reveals himself to you and through the Word and the Bible.
Your story is really inspirational and I know that others will listen to you and go, and, you know, I'm that person too. But I want more.
Life is hard on its own. And if this is true, then it's worth. It's worth believing, it's worth surrendering. It's worth the life that you've given. Yeah. So thanks for your boldness and for your courage. Even as a fairly young believer that you especially, I think I love that your commitment and your vow to tell everyone is for as many years, years as you resisted him, that you are going to be as loud and willing to proclaim the name of Jesus in your years to come. And it really shines through in your story. So thank you so much for coming on, Megan.
[01:01:01] Speaker A: Thank you for having me, Jana. This has been quite a pleasure. Thank you so much.
[01:01:05] Speaker B: You're so welcome.
If you've ever dismissed faith as blind or or clung tightly to control, Megan's story reminds us that surrender isn't weakness. It's often where real freedom begins. Sometimes losing control in the right ways is what finally opens our eyes to what's true.
If you're questioning, curious or just unsure of what to believe, we invite you to explore more stories like this one. @xsceptic.org you'll find curated playlists that match the questions you're asking. Asking about truth, purpose, about whether or not God's real. But if you do have questions and you'd like to connect with a former guest or with us, you can reach us
[email protected] and if you'd like to help us to tell more stories, you can always donate on our website. We'd really appreciate it. Just go to xsceptic.org and find the donate button there. Exskeptic is part of the CSU Lewis Institute podcast Network and is produced with excellence by the help of Ashley Kelfer. Thanks for listening. We hope to see you next time where we'll hear another unlikely story of belief.
